EXYU FITNESS FORUM

Ishrana, suplementi, stimulativna sredstva => ::Androgeno-anabolicki steroidi:: => Topic started by: sele137 on July 12, 2007, 11:46:48 PM

Title: IGF FAQ
Post by: sele137 on July 12, 2007, 11:46:48 PM
"Ovaj tekst služi isključivo za informativne svrhe!!!!Ovim ne podstičemo uzimanje IGF-a ili bilo kojih nedozvoljenih supstanci pa se stoga ograđujemo od bilo kakvih poteškoća ili negativnih posledica!!!"

IGF
Inzulinu slican faktor rasta (eng. Insulin-like growth facors) IGF orginalno je otkriven i „prociscen“ iz seruma.Orginalno se koristi kao faktor rasta za industrijsku kulturu celija.
Postoje dvije forme IGF-1 i IGF-2 koje su slicne i imaju slicno dejstvo na rast celije putem istog receptora.IGF-1 se smatra glavnim postnatalnim faktorom rasta,a IGF-2 ima glavni efekat za vrijeme fetalnog razvoja.IGF je polipeptid sastavljen od 70 aminokiselina po stukturi slican proinzulinu prekursoru inzulina.
Koncentracija IGF-a u serumu zavisi od starosti, ishrane, sastava tijela i sekrecije hormona rasta.
Skoro 95% cirkulirajuceg IGF-a u serumu je vezano za specificni spajajuci protein.

Proizvodi se najvise u jetri kao odgovor na otpustanje hormona rasta iz hipofize.Mnogi efekti HGH-a na rast poticu od njegove mogucnosti da otpusta IGF iz jetre.Stepen konverzije HGH-a u IGF varira od korisnika do korisnika ali generalno HGH konvertira oko 4-6mcg IGF-a po jednom IU HGH-a.
IGF pripada „superfamiliji“ substanci poznatih kao faktori rasta.Svim ovim substancama je zajednicka mogucnost da stimuliraju dijeljenje celija sto je poznato kao mitogeneza i celijska diferencijacija.
U slucaju IGF-a koji djeluje na misice to znaci da ce pokrenuti rast novog misicnog vlakna i samim tim stvoriti novi receptor za testosteron.
IFG nema lipoliticke atribute (razgradnja masti) koje ima HGH, vjerovatno zato sto nepostoji funkcionalni IGF receptor u masnim celijama.
Ovo ce vjerovatno biti cudno vecini korisnika koji su ubjedeni da IGF ima utjecaja na gubljenje masnoca, ipak vrlo su male sanse da se to desava direktno od IGF-a.
IGF se ponasa slicno inzulinu i administracija IGF-a vas takoder moze dovesti u hipoglikemijsko stanje.IGF poboljsava inzulinsku osjetljivost sto treba imati na umu onaj koji koristi ili ima namjeru da koristi i inzulin sa IGF-om.Prednost koju IGF ima u odnosu na HGH je da ima puno veci afinitet da se prikaci za misicnu celiju umjesto celiju kosti ili nekog organa.
IGF se spaja na miotome (misicni snopovi) maticne celije koje se nalaze u misicima i vezivnom tkivu.Ove celije su odgovorne za proizvodnju miotomskih celija koje su odgovorne za rast i opravku vezivnog tkiva.IGF je takoder odgovoran za povecanu sintezu proteina.
IGF se nemora koristiti zajedno sa steroidima, HGH, inzulinom ili tiroidnim hormonima da bih bio efektivan jer on izaziva misicni rast sam od sebe.Neki preferiraju uzimanje IGF-a za vrijeme PCT-a jer uopste nema uticaja na prirodnju proizvodnju testosterona.
Sam od sebe IGF moze dati porast od oko 1Kg za dvije sedmice i znacajno povecati vaskularnost.Naravno bit ce te puno sretniji rezultatima ako IGF bude koristili zajedno sa steroidima i mozda inzulinom.
Inzulin se obicno uzima -10% od vase standarden doze 45 minuta prije IGF-a.Opozoravam vas da ovakva kombinacija moze biti smrtonosna i morate znati sta radite!!!
Svrha koristenja inzulina u ciklusu sa IGF-om pored njegovih ostalih sposobnosti bih bila dodatna ekstenzija poluzivota IGF-a jer on (inzulin) otpusta specificni vezujuci protein 3 koji produzava poluzivot IGF-a.Ipak po mojem misljenu inzulin se u vecini situacija nebih trebao koristiti sa IGF-om.
Koristenje steroida zajedno sa IGF-om ce vam omoguciti da brzo ocvrstnete i ojacate novo misicno tkivo formirano od IGF-a , a takoder ta kombinacija moze ubrzati proces hiperplazije (stvaranje novih misicnih vlakana).
IGF je jednini hormon sposoban da proizvede hiperplaziju pretvaranje satelitskih celija u nove misicne celije i stvaranje novih satelitskih celija.Steroidi su pozeljni zato sto oni izazivaju hipertrofiju tih novih misicni celija.
Da nebude zabune kad kazem jedini hormon mislim na to da je on jedini hormon koji direktno izaziva hiperplaziju dok HGH radi isto ali tako sto utice na otpustanje IGF-a ali da bih bio efektivan za misicni rast tu mora biti prisutan i inzulin koji kao sto smo rekli otpusta vezujuci protein 3 koji je primarna transportna molekula za IGF.


KOJI IGF ?
Standardni IGF ima poluzivot od samo 10 minuta.Zbog toga su prije bile potrebne veoma velike doze i cesto injektiranje da bih se vidio bilo kakav efekat.
Koristile su se doze od 100mcg 4-6 puta dnevno.Donekle to objasnjava pojavu onih nateknutih stomaka u profesionalaca,a to isto i objasnjava i razlicite rezultate od koristenja IGF-a.
Zbog veoma kratkog poluzivota IGF-a i visoke osijetljivosti i nestabilnih karakteristika „obicni“ IGF se rijetko tj. sada nikako nekoristi u bilderske svrhe.
Najefektnija forma IGF-a je dugi (long) R3IGF-1 koji ima izmjene u strukturi aminokiselina uz pomoc cega izbjegava vezanje za proteine u ljudskom tijelu i dozvoljava mu da ima poluzivot od 6-12 sati.
R3IGF-1 je kopija IGF-1 sastavljena od 83 aminokiselinekoja posjeduje kompletnu sekvencu ljudskog IGF-a sa zamjenom glutamina sa argininom na trecoj poziciji i povecanjem u duzinu za za 13 aminokiselina na N terminusu.
Ovako izmjenjeni IGF je puno vise potentniji i dozvoljava koristenje mnogo manjih doza i puno rijede injektiranje.
Da bih usporedili razliku reci cu da je par miligrama „obicnog“ IGF-a jednako sa 50mcg R3IGF-a u rezultatima (1 miligram= 1000 mikrograma).

KAKO DA KORISTITE IGF ?

Doze za R3-IGF se krecu od 20mcg-120mcg dnevno najcesce u podjeljenim dozama ako se radi o vecim dozama.
Licno nebih nikome preporucio da prelazi 100mcg.Vecina korisnika vidi dobre rezultate i od 40mcg dnevno.
Korisnik koji prvi put koristi R3-IGF nebih trebao prelaziti doze od 20-40mcg.
Uobicajno ciklusi sa R3-IGF traju 4-5 sedmica sa jednakim odmorom, dok neki korisnici preferiraju 50 dana ON 50 dana OFF.
IGF se obicno koristi pred kraj ciklusa sa steroidima ili za vrijeme PCT-a.Imate tri opcije kad mozete uzimati IGF, ujutro, poslije treninga i navecer.S obzirom da IGF „imitira“ inzulin ova zadnja opcija je najmanje pozeljna ali ako imate iskustva sa inzulinom to vam nebih trebalo predstavljati problem.
U svakom slucaju najidealnije vrijeme je poslje treninga.IGF se moze aplicirati intramuskularno i potkozno s tim da vecina preferira intramuskularno.Dosta korisnika injektira u misic koji je taj dan radio na treningu npr. po 20mcg u bicepse.
Iako nema naucnog dokaza za lokalizirani misicni rast od IGF-a vjeruje se da je broj IGF receptora veci na povrsini misicnih celija koje su prosle kroz trening sa tegovima odakle i dolazi razlog za injektiranje u trenirani misic.Mnogi korisnici tvrde da su primjetili lokalizirani rast misica.Ipak ova trdnja nije dokazana i zato je na vama da se odlucite.
R3-IGF obicno dolazi u koncentraciji od 1mg/ml (1000 mikrograma).Znaci doza od npr. 40mcg je 0,04 ml ili 4IU na inzulinskoj sprici.Za doziranje IGF je najpametnije svakako koristiti inzulinske sprice.


Evo vam jedan primjer ciklusa sa HGH, IGF i inzulinom.Ovoga se netreba cvrsto drzati znaci ovo je samo primjer kako se sve ovo moze smuckati,a mozete koristiti samo dijelove ciklusa.

Sedmica 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
2 – 2.5 IU odmah ujutro
2 – 2.5 IU predvece
Injektirajte potkozno u abdomen,prednji dio butina,gornji dio tricep.

Sedmica 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Dugi R3 IGF-1 – Svaki dan
60mcg intramuskularno poslije treninga u danima kad trenirate ili odmah ujutro u danima kad netrenirate.

Sedmica 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) –brzodjelujuci inzulin.
Samo u dane treninga.
8IU odmah poslije treninga.
Alternativno mozete ici sa inzulinom sedmicu 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) sa IGF-om u zavisnosti sta zelite od ciklusa.

Odmah poslije administracije inzulina:
Injekcija + 5 minuta – popijte sejk sa 10g glutamina / 10g kreatina / 55g dekstroze
Injekcija + 15 minuta – popijte sejk sa 80g whey proteina u vodi
Injekcija + 60 – 75 minutes – pojedite obrok koji se sastoji od proteina i ugljikohidrata 40-50g proteina, 40-50g ugljiko. BEZ MASNOCA!!!
Izbjegavajte masnoce 2-3 sata kod intramusklularne primjene inzulina,a 4-5 sati nakon potkozne primjene.

Uvijek drzite uz sebe neku formu brzih ugljikohidrata (secera) u slucaju hipoglikemije.Simptomi se mogu pojaviti bilo kad dok inzulin neprestane djelovati.Zato UVIJEK budite spremni da odreagujete na simptome hipoglikemije!!!

OPCIONALNO
Sedmica 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) - T3 - 12.5mcg - 25mcg na dan.



R3IGF se obicno prodaje u suhoj formi ili vec rekonstituiranoj formi.Postoji mnogo konfuzije u vezi toga koliko je R3IGF stabilan kad se rekonstituise.
Za razliku od obicnog IGF-a R3IGF bih trebao biti stabilan nekoliko mjeseci cak i na sobnoj temperaturi ali idealno bih bilo cuvanje na -20 do 4 stepene celz.
Cak i drzanje na 37 stepeni C je osiguralo potenciju citavih godinu dana u istrazivanju o stabilnosti.
Iako mozete naci R3IGF i u suhoj formi toplo vam preporucujem da kupujete onu koja je vec rekonstituirana da bih izbjegli komplikacije.

NEZELJENI EFEKTI
Nezeljeni efekti R3IGF-a su u nekim slucajevima proliv,glavobolja,mucnina,povracanje,moguca hipoglikemija (posebno ako istovremeno koristite inzulin) i ubrzani rast vec postojecih tumora.
Zbog zadnjeg razloga nepreporucujem nikome ko ima istoriju tumora u blizoj porodici da koristi IGF.
Zato sto postoji mnogo IGF receptora na zidovima crijeva i unutrasnjem abdominalnom zidu moze doci do atrofije (poznati izgled stomaka pojedinih profesionalaca) naravno ovo zavisi od koristene doze i duzine ciklusa.
Korisnici IGF se cesto osjecaju iscrpljenim i umornim po cijeli dan.Od IGF-a ce te duze spavati i trebat ce vam vise sna da bih se ujutro osjecali odmornim. Osjecat ce te se kao da imate artritis (taj osjecaj je uobicajno povezan sa visokim nivoima HGH-a sto je isto slucaj i sa IGF-om).Takoder posljedica uzimanja IGF-a je EKSTREMNO pumpanje misica nekad i toliko jako da je nemoguce odraditi trening.
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Bildek-21 on September 28, 2008, 06:43:17 PM
Alo ekipa...

Je koristio ko IGF-1 sam, bez GH i Inzulina? Koliko je on dobar ako se uzima sam?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: sele137 on September 28, 2008, 06:46:17 PM
Nikako nije dobar sam isto kao sto ni hgh nije dobar bez steroida!!!
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Bildek-21 on September 29, 2008, 12:19:10 AM
On se daje u trbuh ispod koze ili se daje u misic?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: sele137 on September 29, 2008, 10:07:18 PM
Trbuh?
Htjeo si reci potkozno ili intramuskularno!!!
Moze na oba nacina s tim da je mozda bolje koristiti IM ali sa insulinskim iglama osim ako nisi FAT ASS :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Db on January 13, 2009, 09:47:19 PM
Moze se nabaviti IGF kod nas u apotekama??

Ako moze pod kojim imenom i posto.
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: vuksa on January 13, 2009, 10:22:37 PM
jok...
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: sele137 on January 13, 2009, 11:47:26 PM
Slazem se sa ovim jok  :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: doctor on August 12, 2009, 08:36:24 AM
se moze ZATVORENI inzulin drzat na sobnoj tempereraturi i koliko?
Koliko traje otvoreni inzulin?

Koliko je dobar ins+gh bez aas?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Pedja Petrovic on August 12, 2009, 09:44:03 AM
doco jel ti ne citas kada eti neko nesto napise ili ne citas samo ono sto ja napisem?
mislim da se ne trudim vise da i ne citam ono sta pitas ako je situacija tolika?
ali evo jos jednom
neznam sta znaci otvren inuslin ali sve i jedan isnulin mora da stoji u frizideru i to je to
sve i jedan isnilin koji postoji na ovom svetu dolazi u istom obliku kao otopina i odista neznam sta znaci rec OTVOREN
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: vuksa on August 12, 2009, 12:54:46 PM
se moze ZATVORENI inzulin drzat na sobnoj tempereraturi i koliko?
Koliko traje otvoreni inzulin?

Koliko je dobar ins+gh bez aas?

mislim da se do 4 nedelje moze drzati na sobnj temp...a ovako se mora cuvati u frizu na 2-8c :)

pa valjda traje dok ga ne potrosis :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Pedja Petrovic on August 12, 2009, 03:16:12 PM
Quote
mislim da se do 4 nedelje moze drzati na sobnj temp
pa s obzirom da je ovih dana u sobama bilo i 30 stepeni ne bih bas rizikivao da ga drzim na stolu i ne vidim ni jedan razlog osim ako ga krijes da ti ne stoji u freez-u
mislim
to koliko ti treba sto nosis na trening jer je stvar logike kada se on daje tomu aposluto nece smetti vreme provedeno van freeza
ali drzati ga na stolu onako...jbg..
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: doctor on August 12, 2009, 04:03:25 PM
doco jel ti ne citas kada ti neko nesto napise ili ne citas samo ono sto ja napisem?

Ma citam ja sve sta mi ti napises. Ali nikad nisam postavljao pitanja za inzulin jer ga nisam mislio koristiti.
Sada ga zelim koristiti pa pitam.
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Pedja Petrovic on August 12, 2009, 04:16:08 PM
Quote
Ma citam ja sve sta mi ti napises. Ali nikad nisam postavljao pitanja za inzulin jer ga nisam mislio koristiti.
Sada ga zelim koristiti pa pitam.

pa ja sam ti bas konrketno i odgovrio u vezo tvog pitanja pa ti opet postavis isto samo na drugom mesto,zasto sam mislio da ne citas u opste
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: doctor on August 12, 2009, 05:03:32 PM
Ma ja sam te bio ispitivao o hormonu rasta i T3...
pa si mi puno napisao o tome.
Ne sjecam se da sam pitao u vezi inzulina  :innocent:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Pedja Petrovic on August 13, 2009, 08:34:35 AM
pa postavio si pitanje
DALI KORISTITI INSULIN I GH kada si OFFLINE sa hemijom
ja sam ti dao odgovr
no dobro
kako god ;)
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Sekulla on June 10, 2011, 11:33:25 PM
Ne zamerite sto ozivljavam temu, cudno je da je zanemarena. Pod kojim nazivim (UG naravno) moze da se nadje  R3-IGF. Nisam imao narocito uspeha na netu a ni kod nekih dilera :( Za sad imam jedan hint za neki kineski, tek cu saznati detalje, vial od 1000mcg kosta...pa prilicno jeftino  :bored: Takodje sam negde nasao da se mesa sa sircetnom kiselinom. Jel ovo sve ima nekog smisla ili nisam uradio domaci kako valja?  ;)
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 21, 2011, 10:37:38 PM
Sele jedno cisto inf pitanje ako bush video  :lol: IM apliciranje vs subkutano ima prednost cisto u brzini delovanja tj zadrzavanja ili jos nesto bitnije?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: BUKAS on July 21, 2011, 11:05:25 PM
Po informacijama koje sam skontao iz knjiga mnogo bolje im

"Moze na oba nacina s tim da je mozda bolje koristiti IM ali sa insulinskim iglama osim ako nisi FAT ASS lol" sele 137
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Rasha on July 22, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
hanse, sa cime si ti mislio stakovati taj igf ?? cini mi se kao bolesno skupa stvar, koja kurcu ne sluzi ako nema ostalih sranja :/

ako ista znaci - I had also noted "slightly" better results by
injecting directly into muscles trained the day prior until after that day's body part
was trained. (At which time we switched to that muscle group for injections sites.
Duh!) .. building the perfect beast :)
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 22, 2011, 04:30:16 AM
pise bolje im ali me zanima zbog cega buduci da psie da taj spot efekat nije dokazan? Za ins koliko znam jedina je razlika sto ce umesto 4-6 sati biti aktivan koji sat manje a samim tim ce i brze krenuti u "rad". A buduci da IGF duze ostaje aktivan ne znam koliki je to faktor tu...da ne pominjem sto bas ne gotivim IM aplikaciju buduci da imam abnormalnu fobiju od igala


Rasho,ni sa cim stakovati,plan je kad mi odcarlija jos jedna nedelja (3 nedelje od zadnje injekcije ukupno) idem tokom oporavka od 12 nedelja (ciklus bio 8 ipo) 4 weeks ins 4 w igf 4 w ins pa kad krene sledeci cycle sa aas opet igf...tako da cu fakticki u 3 meseca provaliti sta imam od njega i solo i stakovanog sa aas...a sad vredi li ga,vredi barem po meni.Mnogo je bolje naravno uz aas,kao sto je mnogo bolje i gh uz aas ali ga gomila ljudi uzima samog i ima fine rezultate.A cena dosta manja od GH....downside je sto je i opasniji jer moze dovesti do hipo.A opet mnogo manje ide na kosti i ostala tkiva sto je plusic.Nije meni cilj da se razbijem od igf-a  :lol: nego cisto razmisljam u pravcu da umesto da izgubim 40% dobijenog na ciklusu posle njega ma sta radio,zadrzim sto vise i da ne gubim dve nedelje ciklusa na fakticki vracanje pa tek onda ide novo.

Isto ne utice mi na oporavak testa i savrseno se uklapa u sablon 4-4-4 ins-igf-ins,malo ebem ins pa vracam osetljivost,pa opet ebem pa onda vracam osetljivost  :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: BUKAS on July 22, 2011, 11:44:42 AM
Meni se licno svidja taj plan prvo sa insom, pa onda sve :D

Koje doze bi isao?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Rasha on July 22, 2011, 12:21:24 PM
ok, pazi sad..

I do not believe either worked "best" for growth without exogenous insulin. But
IGF-1 was better than GH alone when dosages were above 60mcg daily...

GH/IGF-1 induced muscle cell hyperplasia and increased structural proteins at
an impressive rate. (They also positively affected contractile proteins to a lesser
degree.) Which in itself increased muscle mass and growth potential. IGF-1 was very
effective for site-specific growth
, though some IGF-1 did migrate into the vascular
system.

Another considered and included point of synergy between Insulin and GH was
this: Insulin and IGF-1 each potentially stimulate the other's receptor sites when
plasma levels are supraphysiological. GH converts to IGF-1 in the liver, and stimulates
the release of IGF-1 in muscle cells. Stacking GH and Insulin obviously resulted in a
great deal of IGF-1 receptor-site activity for beasts.

ne znam jel si citao buliding the perfect beast, da te ne smaram sa ovim textovima ako jesi :D
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 22, 2011, 03:00:47 PM
Meni se licno svidja taj plan prvo sa insom, pa onda sve :D

Koje doze bi isao?

nista "extremno" ,ins svaki put dosad sam isao jednom dnevno pre treninga 10-15IU,sad buduci da imam dva treninga dnevno isao bih 10 pre jednog i drugog.Uvek sam isao max 4 nedelje,tako i ovaj put.

a IGF jos uvek razmisljam,ali recimo 40mcg za prvi put ne bih prelazio...isao bih ili samo pre prvog ili bih podelio na dvaput....u stvari verovatno cu probati obe fore po dve nedelje cisto da izvucem sto vise info.

Citao sam Building the p.b. ali bese davno,ne smeta da citiras :) jos cu razmisliti oko tog IM...mada mi malo trip davati u biceps recimo jos buduci da nigde osim u glut nisam ikada aplicirao injekcije


p.s. da ne bi nekom pocetniku ili slicno nesto ovako padalo na pamet,ja sam insulin koristio 5-6 puta sigurno u tim kratkim intervalima 3-4nedelje i znam kako i sta s njim.I cak kad se sve podmiri sa UH i sve lepo odradi,opet moze doci hipoglikemija tako da sa ovim stvarima stvarno bez zajebavanja.
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: BUKAS on July 22, 2011, 03:11:18 PM
Pa Hans a sto posebno ides ins pa igf?

pazi ovo sad: Insulin promotes cellular uptake of about half of the amino acids needed for
repair and growth - GH promotes the uptake of the other half.

Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 22, 2011, 04:21:08 PM
Pa Hans a sto posebno ides ins pa igf?

pazi ovo sad: Insulin promotes cellular uptake of about half of the amino acids needed for
repair and growth - GH promotes the uptake of the other half.




mogao bih a onda bih imao mesec ipo dana prazno....ovako stalno imam neki anabolicki hormon pojacan i ne brinem o katabolizmu i kao sto rekoh,uopste mi nije cilj nabacivanje mase nego zadrzavanje na sto pametniji nacin,odmaram i oporavljam jedan hormon,drugi cimam  :lol: sto vise misica nabacujem sve teze ide to odrzavanje...a ne zelim da to radim kao gomila kako cujem,praveci sve duze cikluse sa sve manjim pauzama
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Rasha on July 22, 2011, 04:31:32 PM
e bravo ... zato ti je mozda ona stvar tipa mesec dana andrega mesec dana anabolicka faza pun pogodak ... odradis androgenu, pa krenes pct i radis igf i ins ( eventualno ubacs t3 zbog sinergije itd ) .. pa onda opet androgen pa opet anabolicka i tako u krug .. svaka traje mesec dana .. jel si razmisljao o tome ?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 22, 2011, 04:52:39 PM
kaj nisam  :lol: ali za to bi mi vise para trebalo ili da iskljucim suplemente skroz...a to ne bi bio problem kada ne bih imao faks,devojku itd pa da mogu da jedem konstantno,ovako mi supsi olaksavaju posao znatno.Mislim mesec dana brzi estri pa mesec igf...skupa varijanta zasad,mozda bude nesto sl godine od toga...zasad depo king  :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Rasha on July 22, 2011, 04:58:33 PM
jest bolesno skupa varijanta ://

daj boze para pa da rastemo :) :)
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: lokk1 on July 23, 2011, 06:49:51 AM

odmaram i oporavljam jedan hormon,drugi cimam 
ovo mi deluje jako nerealno...posebno kod endokrinog sistema sve utice na sve .. samo je pitanje u kojoj meri...
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 23, 2011, 01:33:19 PM
sklepaj mi bolji nacin   :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: sele137 on July 26, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
Sele jedno cisto inf pitanje ako bush video  :lol: IM apliciranje vs subkutano ima prednost cisto u brzini delovanja tj zadrzavanja ili jos nesto bitnije?

IM u misic odmah poslje treninga obicno onaj koji si radio na treningu ili onaj koji zaostaje u razvoju.Teorija je da ce taj misic koji si radio dobiti vise IGF-a/rasta ako apliciras u njega mada IGF (IGF-1 LR3) djeluje sistemski tj na citavo tjelo i ne bi trebalo da bude razlike gdje ga apliciras ali eto teorija je da malo vise dobije taj misic u koji apliciras zbog povecane osjetljivosti na IGF izazvane treningom tog misica :) To je jedina prednost IM apliciranja!
Nazalost mnogi su odustali od koristenja ovih verzija (kasnis  :evillaugh:) i presli na IGF-1 DES,IGF-2 LR3,MGF...

Interesantan post za doedukaciju :)

IGF-1 LR3 is the most common, popular and prevalent form available right now. But, there is a big question of whether it works and by what mechanism. Originally we had a bio-identical version of igf-1, rigf-1, that was very short acting. Though it was in and out of your system very quickly it had a reputation for inducing hyperplasia (activation and maturation of muscle satellite cells). LR3 was developed for use in the lab in tissue cultures because the bio-idential igf-1 was not lasting in experiments. rigf-1= 70 amino acids, LR3= 83 amino acid sequence. As a result LR3 works very differently. Most in the know say that it is not going to activate satellite cells/induce hyperplasia because of it's amino acid structure. It just doesn't bind to the cells and cannot be broken down properly in the body for that purpose. It does, however, have insulin-like effects (duh, right?). I've experienced this first hand. So, used on a steroid cycle it'll boost gains just as humalog would. Do you get pumps and greater vascularity from insulin? Well, you'll get it from IGF-1 LR3 as well. And, imo, that's about it. It's all of the "insulin like" with non of the (for our purposes/hyperplasia) special "growth factor."

MGF/PEG-MGF

The second most common/popular igf-1 drug is MGF/PEG-MGF- Mechano Growth Factor. Another name for it is IGF-1Ec. It is different than IGF-1 LR3 in structure and effect. The PEG form is simply a longer acting form of MGF, not an entirely different structure like we see in rigf-1 vs igf-1 lr3. Most people will say that PEG-MGF's effects are systemic and MGF's effects are local. i.e. PEG is for the whole body and regular MGF is for "site-enhancement." Personally, I don't buy this. Like I said, it's not two entirely different structures like the two igf-1s. MGF is so short acting that I doubt its effects can fully be seen even when used for site enhancement. It's simply broken down too fast. So the question is: Is PEG MGF so resistant to being metabolized that it can't work at the local level in the muscle?

For local/site-enhancement to work the product has to basically be used while it is in said location. I.e. you shoot it in your biceps and before it can move out into the rest of your body it is broken down in the muscle and "put to work" stimulating the satellite cells and helping them become new muscle. How long does PEG-MGF stay in that "site"? How effective is MGF at this to begin with?

I don't know. That's the short answer. But, I do know that it has more potential for site-enhancement than IGF-1LR3 because it is still a usable form when it comes to effecting satellite cells. It's up to you whether you want to use the PEG form or not. I honestly couldn't tell you which is best and you'll see people swearing each one is better than the other.

The main thing I want to get across is that it isn't like LR3 where they totally changed the structure to make it "longer acting". With MGF they simply PEGylated it so that it would hold up longer in the system. You still have the original drug, just a longer-acting version of it. To me, since PEG MGF is longer-acting and also an original, bio-available form of IGF-1, I give it better chances at working overall than IGF-1 LR3. I know some will say I'm comparing apples to oranges here. But, I feel more like I'm comparing IGF-1 to insulin. PEG-MGF is still going to have unique effects other than nutrient shuttling, IGF-1 LR3 is not!

DES (1-3) IGF-1

DES (1-3) IGF-1 is the latest and, to me, the most promising of all the igf-1 drugs. It is basically bio-available igf-1 (like the original) but with the last 3 amino acids taken off. Some would ask, why does this make it better? Well, that makes it the most bio-available form.

See, here's what happens in our bodies naturally. When we lift weights we produce lactic acid. We also increase hormone output, insulin, GH, test, igf-1 etc. One of the ways that our bodies grow is this: when igf-1 comes in contact with lactic acid some of it is destroyed, but some of it is resilient and only the last 3 amino acids are "cleaved" off of it. This is the form that really goes to work inducing growth! That's why it has been recommended that igf-1 and MGF are injected into the muscles worked post-workout- to take advantage of this phenomena.

With DES (1-2) IGF-1, the work is already done for us. And, since it's a larger dose (especially considering what would survive in the end naturally) than our bodies puts out naturally, it is theoretically many times more effective than original rIGF-1 and the other forms.

Here's a bit longer post from a couple years ago when this stuff was super expensive and hard to find. It's still hard to find, but it's out there....

"DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)

Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (Insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!

IGF-1 is actually produced from both Insulin and growth hormone in the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.

Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!

Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently."

IGF-2 LR3

This one is kind of obscure. But, from what I can gather about it it is a hormone that is present during gestation. It has a 67 amino acid sequence (like DES (1-3) IGF-1). It is said to do the same thing as IGF-1 LR3, but faster. Well, if that refers to hyperplasia then I'd agree that, at least on paper, this should be much faster! I mean, it actually is a substance produced in the body whereas 1-LR3 isn't even bio-available for what we want it for (83 amino acid chain remember, doesn't "fit" in the receptor!).

It is said to have a synergistic effect when combined with 1-LR3. But, my instincts would say to combine it with DES for better results. The idea being that, just like a lot of GH peptides, combining a good IGF-1 with a good IGF-2 has a synergistic effect where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. i.e. if you took igf-1 alone it'd do x amount of what you want, same with igf-2, but combine them and the results are multiplied supposedly. Again, I'd (and will) go with DES (1-3) IGF-1 when combining with IGF-2 Lr3 rather than combining it with IGF-1 LR3 for reasons stated before.

Putting it all together, what's the best protocol?
Obviously I'm taking a bit of a stab in the dark at what the optimal igf protocol might be at this time. But, it is an educated guess.

First of all, I want to clarify a few myths:

1) It's the fact that IGF-1 LR3 is "long acting" that makes it not as good for site-enhancement/hyperplasia. That's what makes it a "systemic" igf vs a "local" site-enhancement drug.

Wrong. While it is longer acting than original rIGF-1, it is the fact that it is an 83 amino acid sequence that causes it not to work for our purposes. It basically (and yes, I'm waaay over-simplifying it, that's what I do!) doesn't "fit" in the receptor site! It still has insulin-like properties. And, for those that have used it and other variants you'll see that it actually has the most insulin-like properties of any of them. My theory is specifically because it doesn't get used any other way! It isn't metabolised/broken down like normal igf-1 and it can be used by the muscle the same way. What's left? Yep, systemic, insulin-like effects similar to low-moderately dosed humalog or humalin-r. That doesn't make it worthless, just over-priced for it's actually benefits.

2) PEG-MGF will not have localized effects because it is too "long-acting"

Wrong. This one doesn't make sense when you think about it: In one bicep you have a shot of regular MGF suspended in water. In the other bicep you have PEG-MGF and you've just finished an arm workout. The drugs and water are both going to "pass through" the muscle where it was injected at the same rate. Why would one get used and the other not just because one has a longer "half-life"?

Here's the real question: Does the PEGylation make the MGF molecule too large to fit into the receptor as it passes through? (they are both -peg and non peg- exiting the muscle at the same basic rate remember) If the PEGylation is too heavy making the molecule too large, then yes, PEG-MGF will not be as effective locally/in said muscle. But, it has nothing to do with how long it lasts in and of itself.

Does PEGylation make MGF too large to work? It depends on how its done and how heavy the formula is.

The other thing to consider is: how stable is MGf without PEGylation? The answer is: Not very! It is said that to keep it totally undamaged you must freeze it several degrees below zero! It's a very fragile drug, that's why PEG was added to it to begin with. So, it's a bit of a trade off. If you want to get full, hyperplasia inducing benefits from regular MGF then you better mix it and use it all pretty quick!! If you are willing to put up with somewhat reduced benefits (i.e. not all of the MGF being used in the muscle because of the PEGylation, but still some of it getting in) while having a more stable drug that will last much longer, then go with PEG-MGF. Money wise I'd go the second route. I'm guessing a percentage of it is still going to be effective even with PEGylation. Though the same could be said about regular MGF's degradation over time- some of it will still be useful. Just how much either way is getting to the muscle is hard to say!

3) Since IGF-2 LR3 is an LR3 drug, then it must be similar to IGF-1 LR3.

Wrong. It's not even close. 1-LR3 is 83 amino acids and 2-LR3 is 67. One is ideal (67) and one is almost useless (83).


So, what's the best overall protocol?

Again, this is my best educated guess. But, based on the science, I would proceed like this: DES (1-3) IGF-1 + IGF-2 LR3 immediately pre workout with PEG (or non PEG, your call) MGF immediately post workout. The reasoning behind this is because the first two drugs are what I'd call "stimulators" in that they tell the satellite cells to "wake-up"! During the workout satellite cells are going to be stimulated and it is a natural environment to have igf-1 in your system. These two drugs can shuttle nutrients most effectively at this time (have your carbs, creatine and aminos during your workout!!) and the muscles are active and receptive to igfs!

MGF is a gene spliced version of IGF-1 and it is more of a "defining" drug. I don't mean fat loss, I mean that it tells the now-active satellite cells what to become. Immediately post workout is when your body has the greatest amount of trauma to the muscle and the satellite cells are most active in the muscles you've just worked. Taking MGF at this time helps define those cells as muscle, puts them to work and tells them what to do! Have another carb/amino/creatine etc. shake after your MGF shot. Shoot the MGF into the muscles worked that you want to see more site growth from.
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on July 26, 2011, 02:55:26 PM
Polako Sele tek ovaj da apsolviramo  :lol:

a oko apliciranja u misic...ja nigde osim u glut nisam ni smeo aas jer se sve plasim manja povrsina,veca sansa probijanja krvnih sudova,zivci blabla...sad dal je lakse sa ins iglom moguce...konsultovacu se jos  :lol:
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Mr.X on September 05, 2011, 07:49:06 PM
@Hans

Brate?
Title: Odg: IGF FAQ
Post by: Hans on September 05, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
Sta je bre  :lol: vis da nisam jos uvek,ici ce sa aas zajedno jer trenutno malo sporadicno treniram i jedem pa da ne trosim telo bzvz.