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Offline Hans

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« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2008, 10:25:45 PM »
Odlicno razmisljas!!!Ja bez tzv. priminga nikada nepocinjem ciklus mase...dakle to je vrlo pozeljno mada je 2-3 sedmice prekratko.
Razlika je vjerujte ogromna!!!



priming cu sad odraditi ono natural,al ubuduce bih onako nesto ko sto ti napisah...znam da je malo al posto idem ketogenu, tu skinem najvise na pocetku pa se sve vise uspori metabolizam...sto je opet extra jer sa 4000kcal dodjem na 2000za odrzavanje za mesec dana  :lol: i onda se misic samo lepi kad krene povecan unos proteina blabla...

al znaci bilo bi ok uraditi tako nesto na pocetku ciklusa?
Why so serious?

Offline sele137

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« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2008, 10:32:48 PM »
Sele prema ovome sto pises zakljucujem da neko ko zeli da se izdefinise a nije takmicar, 500mg testa bi pomoglo da se izdefinise i sacuva misic od katabolizma, u tom slucaju jel je uzimanje BCAA bacanje para(ako se oskudeva sa parama)?

Sta je bcaa  :lol:

Sve je to naravno pozeljno mada sam siguran da korisnik steroida moze proci i bez tih dodataka.
Dakle i ja neke koristim (vise iz navike) ali NISU obavezni pogotovo za 99% bodybuildera koji su na ovim forumima.
Testosteron je dio koji ti moze sacuvati misice po pitanju testosterona  ali UVIJEK moras zaukruziti sve aspekte kao sto je
trening,ishrana,odmor i sl. jer to treba biti osnova a ne steroid i bez toga mozes uzimati sve steroide ovog svjeta ako ove ostale aspekte nezaokruzis izgubices misice!!!

UVIJEK PAZNJA TREBA BITI USMJERENA NA ISHRANU BILO DA SE RADI MASA ILI DEFINICJA JER TO JE NAJJACI ANABOLIK!!!

Ja na dijeti vise volim pojesti normalan obrok nego popiti whey ili bcaa!!!
No periodi oko treninga bilo kardio ili sa tezinama se mogu iskoristiti za upotrebu dodataka kao sto  je whey ili bcaa.

500mg nemoze biti za svakoga dakle zavisi od misicne mase broja ciklusa i sl. ali to je preporuka za bildeka!!!

Realno vecina bildera na forumima nema potrebe da komplikuje svoje ciklusse jer jednostavno ili su rekreativci ili nisu na dovoljnom nivou razvoja.

Meni bi najlakse bilo sada pisati o nekim ultra super ciklusima koji ce ljude oduseviti ali za vecinu stvarno nema potrebe za tim,a i vecina takmicara pretjeruje sa steroidima zbog straha !!!
http://www.healthdesigns.com/rewardsref/index/refer/id/53104/

5$ Discount Code:4089008

If I had it to do all over again, the only injectable I would ever use is Testosterone. I wouldn't waste one shot on anything else!!!
__________________________________
TESTOSTERONE IS THE SPINAL CORD OF THE BODYBUILDER,,NO SYNTETIC TESTOSTERONE = NO BODYBUILDER
__________________________________


Natural





The pros are using good old-fashioned Testosterone, Deca, Dianabol, insulin in the off-season, and GH pre-contest. Nothing fancy. But they're the pros because they're gifted, dedicated, and have been at it a long freaking time. Anybody that tells you different is either full of shit or trying to sell you garbage.



My goals are very simple:

1. Break The Law
2. Look Good Naked

Steroids will cause your kidneys to explode, your heart to blow a ventricle, and your liver to squirt out of your arse, fly across the room, and knock the cat off the futon.

The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder.

Offline sele137

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« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2008, 10:41:02 PM »
priming cu sad odraditi ono natural,al ubuduce bih onako nesto ko sto ti napisah...znam da je malo al posto idem ketogenu, tu skinem najvise na pocetku pa se sve vise uspori metabolizam...sto je opet extra jer sa 4000kcal dodjem na 2000za odrzavanje za mesec dana  :lol: i onda se misic samo lepi kad krene povecan unos proteina blabla...

al znaci bilo bi ok uraditi tako nesto na pocetku ciklusa?

Vjerovatno znas da vecina profesionalaca najbolje dobitke u misicnoj masi ima neposredno poslije takmicenja kad krenu na masu i to iz iskustva tvrdim da je istina...puno bolje i drasticna razlika...naravno netreba pretjerati u tom priming periodu pogotovo zato sto ti tako kratko radis to i cilj priminga treba biti kao i normalna definicija tj. cilj je zadrzati sto vise misica!!!

Ovo bi bilo dobro za tebe:
Kopirano sa muscular development foruma by warrior ...

Diet: Warrior's 14-Day CKD for Pre-Cycle Priming :.
Alright, my intentions here are to provide a plan for something I preach about all the time: a pre-cycle prime. The goal before starting a bulking phase is to get your self prepared mentally and physically for the surge of nutrition, heavy and progressive training and, if so desired, anabolic hormones.

Starting a cycle with too much fat puts you at a disadvantage - a greater likliness to gain fat over muscle while over-feeding(Forbes); whereas a relative contribution of lean and fat mass in weight change is influenced by the initial body fat content. To complicate an anabolic cycle, increased interaction with aromtase occurs in overweight people. High body fat levels are linked to insulin resitance and metabolic disorders - not good for proper calorie partitioning and muscle gain.

I hate to be one to preach a problem without providing a solution... so this is my solution. It's tried a true. If your bodyfat is too high, try a couple cycles through this 14-Day CKD before your next cycle. Let me know how you do and any changes you made along the way. I would suggest at least three to four rotations (6-8 weeks) before you begin your cycle. It's not difficult, it just takes consistancy and discupline to stick to it... all the while you should be getting pent up to start your AAS-assisted growth spurt.

Have fun! 

Warrior’s 14-Day CKD for fat loss
November 06th, 2007

Carbohydrate cycling is an effective method for bodybuilders who want to lose fat while preserving a lot of muscle. Two dietary periods are used: glycogen depletion and carbohydrate loading. During carbohydrate restriction, a state of ketosis develops as stored glycogen in liver and muscle tissue depletes. This accelerates fat as a source of energy – consumed through the diet or stored within adipose tissue. I recently finished a 14-day cyclic-ketogenic diet to illustrate how this works. Prior to beginning, I did a seven-day CKD variation for a few weeks, then detrained (no training) for one week. I started at 248 pounds; target weight was 228, glycogen loaded. I ended at a hard 227, glycogen loaded and drug free.

The 14-day CKD plan consisted of two, week-long, phases. The first week, a glycogen depletion period is interrupted with a mid-phase carbohydrate meal. An evening carbohydrate load partially replenishes glycogen; right after, it is back to depleting again. This carbohydrate intervention is used to help further deplete glycogen by only briefly exiting ketosis. The temporary exodus allows a brief transfer back to preferring carbohydrates for fuel – to scrape the glycogen barrel – then a quick return back into ketosis for optimal fat burning. This maximizes fat burning and muscle retention.

Glycogen super compensation is attempted every 14 days with a carbohydrate load. Near the conclusion of the second week, a full 36-hour carbohydrate load begins the evening after a full-body depletion routine. The day after the carbohydrate load is a strong power routine with a high-carbohydrate diet at a maintenance caloric intake – to help top off glycogen while providing an opportunity to maintain strength levels. Then the 14-day cycle is repeated.

Warrior’s 14-day CKD: integrated diet and training strategy

============FIRST HALF============
Day 1: Moderate Carb: 60 minutes of cardio; abdominal/calve training.
Day 2: Low Carb: Chest and Back Giant Sets; 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 3: Low Carb: Quads and Hamstring Giant Sets; 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 4: Low Carb: 45-60 minutes of cardio
Day 5: Preload Carb: Depletion Routine; 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 6: Low Carb: No Training
Day 7: Low Carb: Delts, Triceps and Biceps Giant Sets; 30-45 minutes of cardio
===========SECOND HALF===========
Day 8: Low Carb: Cardio-only; 60 minutes of cardio; abdominal/calve training.
Day 9: Low Carb: Chest and Back Tension Training; 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 10: Low Carb: Quads and Hamstring Tension Training (w/abs, calves); 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 11: Low Carb: 50-60 minutes of cardio
Day 12: Preload Carb: Depletion Routine; 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 13: Carb Load: No Training
Day 14: High Carb: Loaded Routine; 20 minutes of cardio

============REPEAT============

Low Carb: basically meats, eggs and fibrous veggies; around 30-50 grams of carbohydrates. The only intentional carbohydrate intake should be post-workout with a heavy emphasis on protein. Take 10 grams of BCAA’s pre-workout. A post-workout mix of glutamine, whey, and creatine would serve up well: about 3 parts, 3 parts, 1 part, respectively; mixed with half of an orange or banana.
Preload Carb: Same as a Low Carb, but with slightly less calories during the day. The carbohydrate preload begins in the evening with around 30 grams pre-workout. This can help further deplete glycogen during the training session – 30 grams burns quickly, leaving the body scavenging for more. Immediately after the workout, a heavy carbohydrate and protein shake should be consumed. Then move into a full carbohydrate load, or binge. The first week employs this Preload Carb day but carbohydrate intake ends that night and it’s back to low carbohydrate dieting the next day. The second week moves on to a Carb Load day, where expedited glycogen super compensation is the goal.
Carb Load: An all-out binge of carbohydrates and proteins - trying to eat every hour. Nutrient intake can easily exceed over 5000 kcal, depending on lean body mass. Play with the caloric intake levels, but avoid high-fat foods after the initial 12 to 14 hours from the time the load began, the night before. It’s common to feel bloated with some gastro-intestinal discomfort. Creatine monohydrate and dextrose should accompany the glycogen load.
High Carb: Maintenance calories at roughly 60 percent carbohydrate, 25 percent protein and 15 percent fat.
Moderate Carb: A slight drop in calories - to create a defecit - with roughly 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent protein and 30 percent fat. The day’s carbohydrate intake ends in the afternoon.

DAILY NUTRITION: A daily multivitamin/mineral shoud be taken during this restrictive diet to support systemic bodily functions. Three grams of a fish oil supplement will increase the omega-3 content of each meal. Around four grams of Vitamin C will help keep you well and burning fat. Additionally, stimulants can help keep energy elevated but try to avoid caffeine on Carb Load days.

Training guidelines for Warrior’s 14-day CKD

Depletion workouts the first week use German Body Composition for Chest and Back; Quadriceps and Hamstrings; Shoulders and Arms. GBC is a training outline originated by Charles Poliquin, a great strength coach. It is based on short rest intervals to increase production of lactate, which leads to dramatic increases in endogenous growth hormone spurts, thus resulting in greater body fat loss. The second half, drop with GBC training and move to Tension Training. The goal the second week is simply keep the muscles trained.

On the Preload Carb days, a full-body Glycogen Depletion Routine is used to finish depleting muscular glycogen throughout the body. This helps maximize glycogen uptake sensitivity in all muscle groups prior to ingesting carbohydrates. The goal is to exhaust glycogen throughout the body, prior to a carbohydrate load – not make monumental gains in strength. An opportunity for power training comes after the load, when energy levels are restored.

The day after a carbohydrate load, a Carb/Creatine Loaded Routine is performed as a full body power routine prior to beginning another depletion phase. The main goal of this routine is to move heavier weight - power train. This is the most important routine to monitor limit strength and muscle preservation. The total time to completion for the routine is also a significant variable – if you move the same loads but the workout is taking you 20 minutes longer, this is not a good sign.

GBC Training
This resistance training program is divided into these muscle groups with the same movements for the duration of the program. Giant sets are grouped in sequence by letters and performed in order by number.
Chest and Back
Chest
A1: (6) Flat Barbell Press
Rest 10 seconds
A2: (12) 45 Degree Incline Dumbbell Press
Rest 10 seconds
A3: (25) 30 Degree Incline Dumbbell Flye
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Back
B1: (6) Wide Grip Pull Ups
Rest 10 seconds
B2: (12) Bent Barbell Rows
Rest 10 seconds
B3: (25) Close Grip Front Pulldowns
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Quadriceps and Hamstrings
Quads
A1: (6) Full Barbell Squats
Rest 10 seconds
A2: (12) Hammer Strength Hack Squats
Rest 10 seconds
A3: (25) Hammer Strength Quad Extensions
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Hams
B1: (6) Hammer Strength Leg Curls
Rest 10 seconds
B2: (12) Romanian Deads
Rest 10 seconds
B3: (25) Back Extensions
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Shoulders and Arms
Delts
A1: (6) Front Military Press
Rest 10 seconds
A2: (12) Standing Dumbbell Laterals
Rest 10 seconds
A3: (25) Standing Upright Rows
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Triceps
B1: (6) Flat Close Grip Presses
Rest 10 seconds
B2: (12) Incline Triceps Extensions
Rest 10 seconds
B3: (25) Standing Rope Extensions
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times
Biceps
C1: (6) Incline Dumbbell Curls
Rest 10 seconds
C2: (12) Standing Barbell Curls
Rest 10 seconds
C3: (25) Standing Reverse Grip Cambered Curls
Rest Interval: 2 minutes
Repeat 2 times

Tension Training
This routine divides the body’s muscle systems into two workouts. To monitor changes in limit strength, continue to use the same movements for the duration of the program. The static training should track the amount of time the muscle can hold the load in the fully contracted position.
Upper Body
(2X10) Barbell Bench Press
(2X12) Wide Grip Pull Ups
(2X12) Hammer Strength Incline Press
(2X12) Hammer Strength Close-Grip Rows
(2X15) Machine High-Pulley Crossovers
(2X15) Incline Dumbbell Shrugs
Rest Interval: Variable
Lower Body
(1X10,1X20) Leg Press
(2X15) Hammer Strength Leg Extension
(2X15) Machine Standing Iso-Lateral Leg Curls
(T sec) Static Hammer Calve Raise
(T sec) Static Straight-Leg Raises
Rest Interval: Variable

The Glycogen Depletion Routine
This routine (setsXreps) should use the same movements, number of sets and repetitions, in the same order, to monitor changes in limit strength.
(2X15) Full Barbell Squats
(2X10) Hammer Strength Leg Curls
(2X15) Hammer Strength Quad Extensions
(2X20) Seated Calve Raise
(2X12) Barbell Bench Press
(2X12) Bent Barbell Rows
(2X12) Military Front Press
(2X15) Close Grip Pulldowns
(2X10) Incline Tricpes Extensions
(2X10) Standing Barbell Curls
(2X20) Back Extensions
(2X20) Rope Crunches

The Carb/Creatine Loaded Routine
This routine (setsXreps) should use the same movements, number of sets and repetitions, in the same order, to monitor changes in limit strength.
(5X6) Full Barbell Squats
(5X3) Rack Dead Lifts
(5X5) Barbell Bench Press

Cardio/Endurance Training
Cardio must exploit key opportunities to burn fat. If possible, morning cardio should be performed but time of day won’t matter after a few days of glycogen depletion training. At that point, any opportunity to do cardio is a plus. Stationary cycling is a good option, especially as glycogen and energy gets depleted. It’s good to monitor cardio progress (or digress); such as total calories burned per unit of time completed.
http://www.healthdesigns.com/rewardsref/index/refer/id/53104/

5$ Discount Code:4089008

If I had it to do all over again, the only injectable I would ever use is Testosterone. I wouldn't waste one shot on anything else!!!
__________________________________
TESTOSTERONE IS THE SPINAL CORD OF THE BODYBUILDER,,NO SYNTETIC TESTOSTERONE = NO BODYBUILDER
__________________________________


Natural





The pros are using good old-fashioned Testosterone, Deca, Dianabol, insulin in the off-season, and GH pre-contest. Nothing fancy. But they're the pros because they're gifted, dedicated, and have been at it a long freaking time. Anybody that tells you different is either full of shit or trying to sell you garbage.



My goals are very simple:

1. Break The Law
2. Look Good Naked

Steroids will cause your kidneys to explode, your heart to blow a ventricle, and your liver to squirt out of your arse, fly across the room, and knock the cat off the futon.

The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder.

Offline bebac

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« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2008, 10:41:56 PM »
Hvala sele

Znam za klopu, odmor i trening nego uvek frka od katabolizma, ja da znam da neću imati katabolizam ubijao bi se po 2h kardia jer tad mi je najbolje išlo skidanje BF a obim npr na bicepsu se smanjio 1cm a kilaža -18kg :)
Ali nakon svega toga svi su me napali da ću imati katabolizam i ja poslušao, naravno tu sam i stao sa napredovanjem :)
Pain is temporary, Pride is forever

Offline Bildek-21

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« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2008, 10:46:42 PM »
Hvala Sele!!


Offline Hans

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« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2008, 10:52:17 PM »
uuu sele zahvaljujem puno  :clap: :clap: GBC bih ionako radio ovih 6 nedelja kako sam isplanirao  :lol:

odlican tekst sve u svemu,mislim da si ovo vec kacio negde...a naravno misic najbolje ide posle defke...al i salo,zato treba paziti na hranu maksimalno
Why so serious?

Offline sele137

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« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2008, 10:52:31 PM »
Hvala sele

Znam za klopu, odmor i trening nego uvek frka od katabolizma, ja da znam da necu imati katabolizam ubijao bi se po 2h kardia jer tad mi je najbolje islo skidanje BF a obim npr na bicepsu se smanjio 1cm a kilaza -18kg :)
Ali nakon svega toga svi su me napali da cu imati katabolizam i ja poslusao, naravno tu sam i stao sa napredovanjem :)

2 sata kardia...jao vec se ubih od dosade  :lol:
Mislim da je dva sata svakako previse bez obzira na steroide !!!
Max sto bi ja radio 2 puta dnevno po 45 minuta max sat i trebalo bi mi barem 8-10 sedmica da dodjem do tog nivoa!!!
Ako ti treba dva sata kardia da bi mrsao onda ti nesto sa ishranom definitivno nije u redu!!!

Ako bi ljudi u skladu sa pravilima za koje postoje opisi na hiljadu mjesta radili definiciju puno manje bi se mucili i lutali.

Katabolizam nemozes izbjeci u potpunosti i sa steroidima ili bez njih...cilj je samo smanjiti katabolizam !!!

Experimentiraj jer na greskama se najbolje uci  ;)
http://www.healthdesigns.com/rewardsref/index/refer/id/53104/

5$ Discount Code:4089008

If I had it to do all over again, the only injectable I would ever use is Testosterone. I wouldn't waste one shot on anything else!!!
__________________________________
TESTOSTERONE IS THE SPINAL CORD OF THE BODYBUILDER,,NO SYNTETIC TESTOSTERONE = NO BODYBUILDER
__________________________________


Natural





The pros are using good old-fashioned Testosterone, Deca, Dianabol, insulin in the off-season, and GH pre-contest. Nothing fancy. But they're the pros because they're gifted, dedicated, and have been at it a long freaking time. Anybody that tells you different is either full of shit or trying to sell you garbage.



My goals are very simple:

1. Break The Law
2. Look Good Naked

Steroids will cause your kidneys to explode, your heart to blow a ventricle, and your liver to squirt out of your arse, fly across the room, and knock the cat off the futon.

The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder.

Offline malojaci

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« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2008, 10:53:47 PM »
by:Alan
forum.teretana.net

Alan ti nije ni bilder niti ima ikakve veze sa bilo cim.On je obicni biler wannabe prema tome ne bih bas slusao njegove savjete. ;)
...na kraju svake priče ti ostanu lijepi snovi,
maštovite priče o lovi i sijećanja na lijepe dane,
ja rušim zidove iz glave i gledam život sa strane,
posmatram stare jarane koji pucaju kao grane...

Offline sele137

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« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2008, 11:04:47 PM »
Poenta je da napravite razliku izmedu onoga sto vama treba i sto nekom drugom treba,a to nemoze biti nikako isto za sve!!!

Mjenjanje steroida, razliciti afiniteti steroida i sl imaju mjesta ali kada i za koga i pod kojim uslovima je puno bitnije a za to treba veliko iskustvo da bi ste dosli do te faze i bilo bi izuzetno glupo odmah iskoristiti sve jokere!!!
http://www.healthdesigns.com/rewardsref/index/refer/id/53104/

5$ Discount Code:4089008

If I had it to do all over again, the only injectable I would ever use is Testosterone. I wouldn't waste one shot on anything else!!!
__________________________________
TESTOSTERONE IS THE SPINAL CORD OF THE BODYBUILDER,,NO SYNTETIC TESTOSTERONE = NO BODYBUILDER
__________________________________


Natural





The pros are using good old-fashioned Testosterone, Deca, Dianabol, insulin in the off-season, and GH pre-contest. Nothing fancy. But they're the pros because they're gifted, dedicated, and have been at it a long freaking time. Anybody that tells you different is either full of shit or trying to sell you garbage.



My goals are very simple:

1. Break The Law
2. Look Good Naked

Steroids will cause your kidneys to explode, your heart to blow a ventricle, and your liver to squirt out of your arse, fly across the room, and knock the cat off the futon.

The most obvious symptom is death which would hardly be missed by even the most focused and intensive bodybuilder.

Offline Mr.X

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« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2008, 11:43:01 PM »
Ja bi opet rekao da dodavanje Winstrola pred kraj ciklusa moze znatno da popravi izgled!!!!!Naravno da se efekti winstrola najbolje primecuju kada je bf jako nizak,ali on sam po sebi "pokupi dosta vode i na taj nacin da doprinos tome da korisnik izgleda cvrsce!
Na sve proizvode iz pansporta 10% popusta,plus dodatni extra popust na porudzbine preko 6000din

061/20-37-867

DAJTE VULETU SECERA I VODE!!!!